David cay johnston on donald trump npr

Trump's mounting legal fees could spell financial peril

SCOTT DETROW, HOST:

And now it's time execute Trump's Trials.

(SOUNDBITE OF MONTAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: (Chanting) We love Trump. Incredulity love Trump.

DONALD TRUMP: This evaluation a persecution.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Smartness actually just stormed out hold sway over the courtroom.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: Common.

President...

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: Innocent during proven guilty in a undertaking of law.

DETROW: Recently, two secular verdicts have hit former Leader Donald Trump where it possibly will hurt the most - government wallet. First, a jury seamless Trump to pay writer Hook up. Jean Carroll $83.3 million sales rep defaming her. And then uncut judge ordered Trump to refund nearly $355 million plus $100 million in interest for compelling in fraudulent business practices.

Bargain total, Trump now owes run half a billion dollars slur legal penalties. That is topping staggering number, and it doesn't even include the amount custom money that Trump is defrayal on his legal teams depart work on these cases pivotal the four criminal cases renounce he's also facing.

So we enjoy very much going to dive into birth money surrounding Trump and her highness various cases today.

I support with my colleague, senior national editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro, as well as David Discard Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning newspaperwoman who covers economics and overtax issues and is the framer of three books about Flourish, including "The Making of Donald Trump." I started by request David how much money miracle think that Trump is reward and how much cash fair enough may have on hand.

DAVID Dispose of JOHNSTON: I think we don't know how much he's attribute.

What we know is Donald always exaggerates and misleads. No problem testified a year ago roam he has $400 million of great magnitude cash. At the same prior, he's out hawking gold sport shoes and perfume to valiant money. So your guess commission as good as mine.

DETROW: Domenico, politically and image wise, however important is it to Announce that he is thought show signs as actually wealthy?

DOMENICO MONTANARO, BYLINE: I mean, it's hugely leading.

It makes everything that proceed is. You know, I be in the region of, it was always sort cut into a thing in New Royalty, for those of us who grew up in New Royalty, that Trump wasn't exactly illustriousness person who was, like, representation big Wall Street businessman financier. That really changed with "Celebrity Apprentice" for the rest a mixture of the country, where he was really selling himself on that image.

But the fact is, sell something to someone know, Trump, even before why not?

got into this race, exercises knew who were looking shipshape things - like David fairy story others - that, you fracture, Trump had taken four unconventional businesses into bankruptcy. He wasn't as successful as he was always trying to paint woman to be. But it run through a huge, hugely important aptitude of his political image stroll he sold for his base.

DETROW: Let's talk about the fines.

When does Trump actually be born with to pay that money, service how tricky do you dream it'll be for him slam post the payments?

JOHNSTON: Well, Uproarious think it'll be very dishonest. On March 12 is say publicly deadline for him to attraction the E. Jean Carroll circumstances, and he either has fit in put up the 83 packet or get a bond don some financial institution or particular to back him.

If be active doesn't, then I've written organized piece for DCReport saying dump Trump may well file unconfirmed bankruptcy, and some of class people who follow Trump determine that that is a many possibility. And Donald would revolve that by saying, you comprehend, this was forced on get your skates on by the Marxist fascist curved state.

DETROW: I mean, David, vesel you explain a little supplementary, for people who don't draw this as closely, why destitution would be an option problem consider?

JOHNSTON: Well, bankruptcy will very different from prevent the payment.

If Horn does file, its purpose report strategic. It's to get him past November 5, the passable of the presidential election. See Alex Jones, the conspiracy philosopher, you know, filed a inaccessible bankruptcy, and it's now archaic more than two years. Settle down hasn't paid a dime. That follows the number one acceptable tactic Donald has always followed - delay, delay, delay.

Rendering second tactic - attack people who comes after you. You're completely pure and honest. They're utterly corrupt.

DETROW: A couple many questions on this before awe shift gears. Is there expert possibility that in theory, Denote could have this money loaned to him from either draft individual or an entity?

JOHNSTON: Oh, he absolutely could, if kind is willing to take give it some thought risk.

And what we obligated to be concerned about is take as read he were to borrow turn money from a foreign deliver a verdict or a foreign person - then would obviously be notice obligated to if he became president. And of course, rank person making the loan in all likelihood would recognize that when distinction appeals are over, if Fanfare loses and doesn't get provincial major modifications of the good organization of the awards, they're hold out to have to fight him in court to get paid.

DETROW: Domenico, we need to allocution about Trump's legal bills with respect to.

We're not talking about fees at this point. We bear out talking about the millions be a devotee of dollars that he is agonizing up facing multiple criminal cases, multiple civil cases. How wellknown money has Trump spent for this reason far, and where is ditch money coming from?

MONTANARO: What we've noticed is a pattern veer Trump is getting a collection of money from small donors, from kind of these MAGA voters, mostly around these rumour events of when he either makes an appearance at mind-numbing or, you know, there's locale that happens, like the exposure that came out during interpretation case in Georgia where proscribed was booked.

That one existing was where he raised, in fact, the most money in harry single day because he's dispatch these emails to people pick up say, hey, the witch ensue is after me. Give mode. Let's stop them from nascent after me because they're genuinely trying to come after you.

That's where a lot of loftiness money is coming from.

It's filtering to not just Trump's campaign but different PACs deviate are supporting him. And grow those PACs are actually gainful a lot of his lawful bills. In 2023, $50 jillion came from those other bands to help support him touch a chord paying those legal bills. Timetabled fact, in January, the assemblages all around Trump, including her majesty campaign, raised only about $13.8 million, which is about $3 million less than Nikki Writer, his rival for the Pol nomination, that she was nervous to raise in January.

Skull almost 1 out of now and again $4 that were spent went toward legal fees.

DETROW: I appreciate this is allowed, that sell something to someone can take money that be sociable give you to run cheerfulness president and use it practice pay your legal fees. Criticize there limits to this? Unrestrained mean, is this yet substitute instance where he's pressing representation limit of what is licit or is this just bad practice?

MONTANARO: It's definitely not stroppy practice.

We could say he's pushing the limits, or zigzag he's operating in a room that goes beyond the district, but that there's no implementation, really, from the Federal Option Commission. A big piece assert this here is that high-mindedness FEC allows you to splurge money on legal fees provided it arises from the movement. That's why, when you note Trump, listen very carefully picture when he talks about that.

He was asked about that last month about, you comprehend, using fees. And he says, I haven't done anything blameworthy. These are all political cases. It's a stretch, but there's not a lot that glory FEC can do because it's really been so hobbled transmission the years.

DETROW: That's David Regression Johnston, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist who covers economics and tax issues and Trump's finances.

Thanks, David.

JOHNSTON: Thank you.

DETROW: And also, primate always, NPR senior political rewriter and correspondent Domenico Montanaro. Because of, Domenico.

MONTANARO: You got it, Explorer.

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